file:pascale3.2.nov.96.

120 phut vi S Pascale Le Th Tru:

"en Th To Tien Viet se dng au tien Lang Viet Nam Palawan cung vi cac c s cua 5 Ton Giao ln..."

Bai va Anh: LY KIEN TRUC (Bai cuoi)

PALAWAN (Thu o)- LY KIEN TRUC: Tha S, trong mot Ban Thong Cao Chung cua Van Phong Tuyen Uy Cong Giao Viet Nam, va c quan CADP gi cho Cong ong Ngi Viet tai Palawan ky ngay 27.8.1996, (chu thch cua ngi viet: Tong Tuyen Uy cua VPTU/VN hien nay la c Ong Nguyen Van Tai, mot trong bay v trong Hoi ong Quan Tr cua Giao Hoi, c quan nay va c quan CADP do c Hong Y Sin, Giao Hoi Phi, thanh lap vao thang 9 nam 1975). Ban thong cao chung co oan:

"Cho phep nhng thuyen nhan c th thi van tai Phi mot thi gian". Vay "Th Thi Van" la th nh the nao? va no co rang buoc g vi cac ieu khoan "Thng Tru, Tam Tru, Hoi Hng T Nguyen, Tai nh C theo dien Gia nh oan Tu" trong Ban Hiep c ky ngay 17.7.96 khong?

LE TH TRU: "Da vang. Noi cho ung, trong Ban Hiep c ho khong co noi la ho se cho chung ta c "Hoi Nhap" at nc nay vi t cach phap ly. "Hoi Nhap" co nhieu cach. Ban au chung ta c "Hoi Nhap Xa Hoi" trc, sau o "Hoi Nhap Phap Ly" sau. "Hoi Nhap Phap Ly" la mot cong tac dai dong, no co the oi hoi mot en hai nam na. Theo luat phap cua Phi, nhng ngi Viet Nam muon thng tru ay co hai loi e at ti muc tieu o...

"Th nht la mnh i nh Luat S van ong e c mot quyet nh cua hanh phap. Chnh phu Phi va Tong Thong Phi co quyen ky mot sac lenh cho phep ngi t nan c quyen thng tru. Th du nh cac trng hp nhng phu n Viet Nam theo chong Phi ve nc, nhng khi qua en ay, ho b chong Phi bo ri. So phan cua nhng phu n nay se ra sao ng ve mat phap ly?

"Toi xin noi ro, ke t ngay 1 thang 5 nam 1975 cho en nay, nhom ch em o co hn 700 ngi. Bay tram phu n nay phai ch i suot 20 nam qua, cho en thang 5 nam 1995, mot Quyet Ngh cua Chnh Phu Phi ra i cho phep "May Ba Viet Nam lay Chong Phi" c Thng Tru tai Phi. Ho va con cai cua ho c tr thanh Cong Dan Phi ngay tc khac sau khi ang ky Thng Tru. Chung toi ngh rang cai "Quyet Ngh" nay kho co the xay ra lan na!...

"Nhng... chung toi cung co m mot cuoc "Van ong Hanh Lang" oi vi cac v Dan Bieu Ngh S Phi, thuyet phuc ho lam cai "Bia", a ra nhng d luat cho ngi Viet Nam ay luon. Thng Ngh S Phi ch co 24 ngi, van ong ho cung de thoi, nhng Dan Bieu co en hang tram ngi, ieu nay rat la kho khan. Cho nen, khi m ra cuoc tham do va chng trnh ghi danh cho ong bao Viet Nam, chung toi muon co con so cu the e biet se co bao nhieu ngi "ang Ky Thng Tru", bao nhieu ngi "ang Ky Tam Tru", vi con so thong ke nay, vi khoang 60 phan tram ong bao ang ky thng tru, chung toi se phai lam ngay trong cuoc "Van ong Hanh Lang" vi Quoc Hoi Lng Vien...

"Ve van e "Tam Tru". Tam Tru co ngha rang la Thuyen Nhan se ay mot thi gian ngan, sau o ho se i ve, (ve Viet Nam). "Th Thi Van" la cho nay o. So ngi nay rat la nho. (CT: thu tuc ang ky thng tru, tam tru se phai hoan tat trc ngay 17.11.1996). Mot iem kha quan trong ma chung toi cung biet ai cho nhng ngi "Tam Tru", (v chung toi biet ro hoan canh tng ngi), o la nhng ngi tam tru: sau khi "Th Thi Van Mot Thi Gian", neu ho cam thay lam an sinh song c Phi, ho "Co The ang Ky Thng Tru".

"Ve van e oan Tu Gia nh, chung toi cung ngh en nhng trng hp ba con co than nhan My hay cac nc khac. Trong Ban Hiep c, khong co ghi ro thi gian cham dt Hiep c, co ngha la chnh phu co the cham dt Hiep c bat c gi nao, hoac co the keo dai Hiep c khong biet en ngay thang nao. Do o, Giao Hoi va CADP, phai thc hien chng trnh va ke hoach cu giup thuyen nhan co hieu qua, e khong mang lai s thiet hai cho thuyen nhan...

"Gia s bat thnh lnh cuoi nam nay chnh phu cham dt Hiep c, ma chung ta cha lam c ieu g ca... th no cung ket! Nhng... c Cha va chung toi cung san sang... chong oi e Hiep c keo dai thi gian hn...

"Ve van e "i Ve", o la ieu rat la tot. V nhng ai cam thay lai Phi khong c nh y cua ho, th ho co quyen "Hoi Hng T Nguyen". o la ieu rat la tot ma thoi. Trc khi Cao Uy Lien Hiep Quoc cham dt chng trnh bao tr cho Trai T Nan Palawan (mot trong 6 Trai toan nc Phi), vao ngay 30.6.1996, Cao Uy co e lai mot so tien cho chnh phu, dung vao viec giup cho ngi "Hoi Hng T Nguyen" co giay t hp phap, co ve may bay, va co phng tien toi thieu, cho bc ng ve lai vi Que Hng. LKT: Tha S, tr lai "Lang Viet Nam Palawan"; gan ay co vai luong d luan cho rang chnh sach "Thng Tru" mang mot y ngha "Bat Buoc" nhng thuyen nhan phai lai Phi vnh vien, va ho se khong co c hoi i nc ngoai na, xin S co the noi ro hn ve van e nay khong?

LTT: "Trc het, toi muon biet t khi anh en ay, anh a phong van c bao nhieu ngi e anh co the ket luan rang o la "D Luan"? Tuy nhien neu anh a dung cai ch "D Luan" th toi cung xin lu y qu oc gia, thnh gia: ben ngoai ng hieu lam "d luan" co ngha la a ung 90 phan tram hay 50 phan tram! Tuy nhien, ay la mot cau hi rat hay, nhat la oi vi y ngh cua ong bao hai ngoai... That ra toi a tm hieu kha nhieu, ve be rong cung nh be sau cua van e t nan, ch khong rieng g ... Palawan. Toi xin noi rang:

"The Gii a i en mot cach giai quyet sau bao nhieu nam, the gii a at ra cau hoi: Khong nhan ngi Viet Nam t nan na co c khong?...

"Cau hoi a c tra li vao ngay 30.6.96. Nhng ngi t nan khong con m mong, khong con mong c g na het. V vay, khi chung toi m ra chng trnh "Ghi Danh" e lai Phi, chung toi a ra hai cau hoi rat ro rang cho ong bao. o la ong bao muon "Thng Tru" hay "Tam Tru". Trong nhng trng hp o, ong bao co hoi "Thng Tru la lam sao"? va "Tam Tru la lam sao"?

"Chung toi co nhng buoi sinh hoat vi ong bao, giai thch, phan biet, li hai. ac biet, c Ong Nguyen Van Tai a to chc nhng "em Khong Ngu" trong Trai Palawan e moi ngi cung mo xe. iem mo xe quan trong ma chung toi muon cho ong bao hieu rang: "Cai Hiep c ky ngay 17.7.96 khong bat chung ta lai, nhng Hiep c cung cha cho chung ta lai"... Hiep c mi ch la con ng dan ti "Nga Ba"...

"Cho nen chung toi muon biet ong bao muon cai g? ong bao c nguyen cai g? chung toi muon biet thuyen nhan Viet Nam Phi en ay v "T Nan Chnh Tr"? hay "T Nan Kinh Te"? hay ch muon "i Ngoai Quoc vi Than Nhan? hay en ay v "Ly Tng T Do"?... e t o chung toi bat tay vao viec...

"Neu khong co ngi muon lai ay v "Ly Tng T Do" th chung toi cc kho xin cho ho lai ay e lam cai g? e lam cai g?

"Neu cai chuyen ma toi biet rang khong co ai muon lai Phi th toi... toi... toi cuon goi ra i rat la de dang!!! (Chu Thch cua ngi viet: cuoc phong van en ay phai tam ngng mot phut, v tren oi mat S Pascale o heo).

"... Toi qua ay du hoc ve nganh Xa Hoi Hoc t nam 1972, toi song ay hai mi may nam roi. c nguyen cua toi la c ve Viet Nam phuc vu cho ngi ngheo. Cac S, cac Me Be Tren Viet Nam goi toi hay mang bang cap ve ay, ngi ngheo kho con nhieu lam! Tai sao toi lai phai ay? Tai sao toi phai trong cai Trai ngheo nan rach nat nay e hng chu nhieu cc kho? Vi bang cap cua toi, cac Trng ai Hoc Manila san sang mi toi day hoc. Tai sao toi lai chon nhng thuyen nhan tren ao Palawan?... LKT: Tha S, s d cau hoi nay c at ra la v hien nay hai ngoai, long thng xot thuyen nhan ang dang cao o, co nhieu khi cao qua mc "thc te"! hn na, hien nay, cung tai Phi, tren bon hon ao ln, ca ngan Thuyen Nhan tron Trai ang an nau va sinh song khap ni, chac chan so ngi nay khong c thong tin ay u. Nh vay, luong d luan cung co y ngha cua no, mong S hieu cho...

LTT: "Toi cung va noi vi anh rang la: Chnh Phu Phi ho khong hao hng lam trong viec gi ngi Viet Nam lai ay. Ngay ca Giao Hoi Phi cung khong u kha nang e bao am cho Thuyen Nhan co mot tng lai sang lan... Cha co ai dam em danh ngha g e du do ngi Viet Nam lai Phi!... Giai phap Phi Luat Tan tuy khong hoan toan nh mot giai phap "e Tam Quoc Gia", nhng chung ta v nh ngi i tren bien, sap chm roi...

"Anh co oc c hai "Cau oi" tren Ban Th To Quoc hom buoi Le khong? Toi xin oc lai hai cau nay e noi len tam tnh cua ngi Thuyen Nhan khong con loi thoat:

"Sn Cung Thuy Tan Nghi Vo Lo "Lieu Am Hoa Minh Biet Nhat Thon"...

LKT: So tien mua at cua Giao Hoi la au? co s dung so tien gay qu cua ong bao hai ngoai trong viec mua at khong? Giao Hoi co ngh en viec mua at gan Thu o Manila, thay v mua mieng at Palawan, ma co nhieu ngi cho rang o ch la mot "Khu Kinh Te Mi"?

LTT: "Nh anh biet, chung toi lam viec cung phai co "D Phong". Nam 1994, khi chung toi a "D An" en cho ong Tong Thong Phi Ramos va noi rang la: "Tha ong Tong Thong, neu ong e cho Giao Hoi lo cho ngi Viet Nam, chung toi a co mot cai qu e lo cho ho. Ong ng co lo..."

"Chung toi co the noi ngay rang, van phong CADP a d phong co c khoang 400,000 o la. Khi a d phong so tien tren, chung toi khong bao gi m mong nhieu hn la co mot mieng at o khoang 200,000 o la, sau o chung toi ho hao co ong ngi Viet Nam xin cay xin la, xum nhau lap "Lang". Chung toi cha bao gi co cai "Mong" mot ngoi nha ep, nc dan vo ti nha, co ng xa, co nhng tien nghi ve vat chat, ve tinh than v.v...

"Khi d nh ve "Ngoi Lang Ngheo" au tien, toi ngh rang vi 400,000 o la co the u. Nhng ma bay gi, vi s ong gop cua ngi Viet Nam hai ngoai, chung toi au dam lam qu v xau mat! No buoc phai co mot cai "Lang". No buoc phai co mot "en Th", "en Th To Tien". No buoc phai co mot khu at ep, trong khu at chon loc o, nhng c s ton giao cua Phat Giao, Cong Giao, Cao ai, Hoa Hao, Tin Lanh, va ngay ca Thien ng (Giao Phai Thanh Hai), cung phai c xay cat khang trang...

"Khi toi tham khao y kien nay vi ong bao trong Trai, ong bao noi vi toi mot ieu lam toi muon khoc: "S i! bao nhieu nam roi chung toi mot can nha ma chung toi nghe nha ben kia than th, chi mang lan nhau, bay tam nam tri chung toi cha co mot cach ly toi thieu, chung toi cha bao gi co mot cuoc song rieng t, co mot mai am gia nh ung ngha, bay gi, du ngheo cach may, cung xin cho chung toi co mot i song rieng t khong phai chung ung na..."

"Mot c nguyen nho be, n s nh vay, lam sao chung toi khong suy ngh! Nh vay, nha se phai co phong, nha se phai co tien nghi, du la tien nghi am bac, v chong tre co phong rieng, va con cai co the co cai ging, cai ging tang chang han...

"Khi c Giam Muc en ay noi chuyen vi ong bao vi "D An 400,000 o la", c Giam Muc noi: "Cac con i, Giao Hoi ngheo lam, ch co bay nhieu tien thoi, cac con co the t tuc khong?" Tc th ong bao reo ho len va vo tay la ln: "Chung con se t tuc!"

"Khi Giao Hoi ha cho at ong bao, luc o chung toi mi co 400,000 o la, va ngoi Lang c dng len tren mieng at co the mua c. Gia at Trai Palawan cu nay hien nay la 1000 Peses mot thc vuong. Con nh theo anh hoi, tai sao khong mua at Manila, xin tha: Gia at tren o gia 5000 ngan Pesos mot thc vuong. Tien au mua noi, o la cha ke a phng o ho co cho mua at e xay "Lang Viet Nam" hay khong! Trong khi o, mot thc at ay gia 100 pesos.

"Cuoi cung, vi s giup tan tnh cua Th Trng Palawan, chung toi a mua c khu at ma chung toi cho rang phu hp vi ieu kien cua chung toi. Khu at ma anh d Le at Vien a dau tien, ch cach trung tam thanh pho co 13 cay so, nam theo con ng ln dan vao cac Khu Trung Tam Du Lch Quoc Gia, chay doc theo b bien, kh hau tot, ke ben co Khu Sieu Th Palawan mi m, mot con suoi nho vat ngang, trong tng lai co the phat trien cac ke hoach Kinh Te, Du Lch v.v... Khu at nay chung toi mua khoang 8 trieu Pesos, rong 8 hecta. (Mot o la My an 26 Pesos).

LKT: Mot ngoi Nha trong Lang tr gia bao nhieu, va a co bao nhieu ngi ang ky thng tru trong Lang?

LTT: "Nha co ba loai, loai 1 danh cho Gia nh co 5 ngi tr xuong, loai 2 danh cho gia nh co 5 ngi tr len, loai 3 danh cho v chong son. Moi ngoi Nha o ong khoang 2,500 o la. Hien nay, van phong 1 CADP Manila ang nhan n "Thng Tru" cua ong bao cac ni tm ve. Van Phong 2 trong Trai Palawan a nhan khoang 480 n cua Gia nh xim Thng Tru. Vi toc o thi cong hien nay, chung toi co 12 nhom xay dng. Moi nhom phai hoan thanh mot can nha trong mot ngay. Nh vay, neu tien trnh xay dng eu an, chung toi hy vong "Khanh Thanh Lang Viet Nam" tai Palawan vao ngay "Tet" cua Dan Toc Viet trong au nam 1997." LKT: Cho en nay, Giao Hoi Phi a nhan c bao nhieu tien gay qu t hai ngoai?

LTT: "Cho en nay (16.10.96), theo toi biet... tuy cha c chnh xac lam, nhng Giao Hoi a nhan c khoang mot trieu mot, trieu hai g o, co le toi se goi ien thoai len Manila e biet chnh xac ieu nay va se tra li anh sau. Nhng toi biet mot ieu la khi c Cha (c Giam Muc Ramon Arguelles) i ve khong mang theo mot ong xu nao het, v tien se c chuyen qua t t!...

LKT: Luc c Giam Muc Ramon Arguelles ang an noi chuyen tren "Dien an Thuyen Nhan" Westminster, Nam California, Ngai co noi la: Giao Hoi san sang chia se so tien gay qu cho cac to chc giup cho nhng thuyen nhan Thai Lan, Nam Dng... Bay gi v s phat trien qui mo cua "Lang Viet Nam" Palawan, so tien gay qu co ap ng u cho Lang Viet Nam khong? va luc ay, Giao Hoi co san sang chia se khong?

LTT: "Viec xay dng Lang Viet Nam Palawan ngay t luc au a rat uyen chuyen. Tuy theo so tien ma chung toi co ke hoach phat trien. Nhng c Giam Muc a noi nh the, thay v s dung het so tien gay qu, chung toi co the cat giam e chia se cho thuyen nhan nhng ni khac, neu co nhng cong trnh xay dng "Lang" cho thuyen nhan Viet Hong Kong, Thai Lan, neu phai chia o khoang 300,000 o la cung phai chia, o la ieu hp ly, hp tnh.

" Tuy nhien, nh hoi nay toi co noi, hien nay, chung toi a nhan c n xin thng tru cua 480 gia nh, tc la chung toi phai lam 480 can nha c ban, cha noi en Nha cho ngi "Tam Tru", trong luc ke hoach mua at ban au, chung toi d kien mua mieng at e cat khoang 300 can nha ma thoi...

"Co ngha la sap ti ay, chung toi phai mua them at, chung toi con phai ngh ti khu thng mai, kinh te, hau phat trien cho "Lang". Tuy van e nay mi ch nam trong ke hoach, nhng bat buoc chung toi phai ngh ti, va toi mong moi ong bao hai ngoai gop tay va ho tr, cho nhng cong trnh cong an viec lam cua "Lang Viet Nam T Tr".

LKT: Tha S, co le cuoc phong van hom nay tam cham dt ni ay, that ra, con kha nhieu van e "Thi S Nong Bong" khac neu c phep se xin y kien cua S. Chuc S co nhieu sc khoe va chuc "Lang" co nhieu sc kheo.

LTT: "Xin cho toi gi li kham phuc tinh than tng tr thuyen nhan cua ong bao Viet Nam Hai Ngoai, va... cam n anh."

Palawan, 16 thang 10, 1996. (Ly Kien Truc)